Avengers Vs. X-Men #6 Review
Avengers Vs. X-Men is here. And what better way to handle this than to have our resident Avengers fan (Geoff Arbuckle) and our resident X-Men fan (Victor Kutsenok) come together in a place of neutrality to talk about their favorite teams coming to blows over a cosmic power coming to Earth. Now, Round 6, also known as Avengers Vs X-Men #6 and the first issue of Act II.
Avengers Vs X-Men #6
It’s the X-Men’s way or the highway in Avengers Vs. X-Men #6.
Geoff: Well, Victor… This is certainly a fine mess your X-Men have gotten the world into.
Victor: What mess Geoff? They seem to be making the world a better place to live. Free energy. An abundance of food, water and shelter. Also, the removal of all war and destruction. What seems to be the problem?
Geoff: Looks like I need to go on a Captain Kirk-like plea for sanity. Here goes…
It’s all fine and dandy that the world is able to be fed, everyone has free energy, and everyone is free from war and whatnot, but the cost of this is fairly high. Let’s think about this. The Phoenix Five has forced this way of life onto the world. Tyranny is still tyranny no matter the results. The basic nature of people (mutant and human alike) is to grow and learn and heal from mistakes and taking themselves to the brink of destruction. Without that, we would have no idea how to live our own lives. We’d have no idea how to rise above problems. I’m sorry, Victor, this is no way to live… No matter the positives.
Victor: No offense, Kirk, but that’s just ridiculous. Give me a world that is free of hunger, thirst, war, and violence and I will show you Utopia. I will take that world of peace and prosperity over so called tyranny. All the Phoenix Five ask is no more war. Is that such a difficult request? If we had no more violence, there would be no more need for arms or wars or unnecessary deaths. There would be no fear of terrorism or world destruction. You can live, with full bellies, and free energy. The cost is minimal and the positives are monumental.
Geoff: This is a classic case of what is called a “clockwork orange”. On the surface, everything is strong, solid, and perfect. However, beneath that surface, things are more rotten than a Klingon’s butthole. When this idea of Utopia is forced upon the world, fear begins to fester. When fear festers, the idea of freedom is lost. What happens when someone just thinks about war, or punching someone, or smacking Emma Frost on the behind? Would I get completely blinked out of existence? I’m not going to lie… I think of those three things A LOT.
Victor: Fear, huh? We’ve dealt with fear. That was last year. Didn’t work out so well for the Avengers.
What happens is that people accept change over time. At first there is resistance, then there is acceptance. Happened with the 8-track to the tape deck to the CD to the Itune. Over time, things improve. Technology improves. Consider this a HUGE improvement. As for the thinking about war or punching someone comment, let’s get serious here. Heroes don’t get involved in minor squabbles in comics. No war means no WAR. Not no thinking about it.
Cyclops deems Hope is no longer worthy of the Phoenix.
Geoff: Listen to what you’re saying! We’re comparing a complete overhaul of nature with deciding if we’re ready to spend the money on new technology to listen to our ABBA albums. This isn’t technology, these are 5 people who show up when something happens that doesn’t cotton to their ideas of how things should be and “fix” it. This is essentially 1984 with cosmic beings.
I don’t think I need to go any further than to point out how Cyclops deals with Hope. He tells her she can leave at any time. Asks her to reach out for the Phoenix Force and then tells her she’s not good enough. Time comes when she’s had enough of his brand of crazy and wants to leave with the Scarlet Witch. What happens then? Cyclops takes back the comment about her leaving. This paranoia he’s suffering from is what’s going to lead to this Utopia NEVER being able to work and endangering far more than it will ever save.
Victor: Really? As I recall, they only showed up to help save the Avenger’s ass from being killed by Zzzax’s. Then they turned that threat into a source of good. They didn’t wipe anyone out of existence when the Avengers broke into Utopia to kidnap Hope. They fought, but no one was removed from existence. So that argument is flawed.
I am comparing progress to progress. You want to honestly tell me that you would rather live in today’s world, filled with wars, terrorism, nuclear weapons, hunger, famine, and injustice than a world of peace and prosperity? (I know you’re an Avengers fan, but step out of the comic and into reality and really think about it.) This is not Big Brother. The X-Men are not telling us how to live, just not to destroy the world we live in. How bad is that?
Back to comics. Yes Cyclops is losing it. That’s what the Phoenix does to you. He cannot control it. It is taking his rawest emotions and amplifying them by a thousand. He has always been fighting for the survival of his race and the Phoenix is making that a reality. Cyclops did say Hope can leave whenever she wants to but takes it back because of the people she is leaving with. People who have hunted and attacked him for the past few weeks. People who refuse to quit harassing him. Now he feels that they will use Hope to further that harassment. While I do agree that teasing Hope with the Phoenix Force was a bad thing and that eventually it will become a situation of absolute power corrupts absolutely. For now though, he is still in control.
And now the Avengers have pissed him off…
The end of the Avengers?
Geoff: To answer your question, I would rather live in a world where we make mistakes so we can learn from them. To have all potential threats and evils completely wiped out treats people like children. No one would have the opportunity to grow and learn from past mistakes and, ultimately evolve. It’s what makes us unique. It’s why we’ve, as a civilization, has evolved beyond the shackles of religion (despite what others believe we should be doing to appease some sort of god).
The reason why I have found this situation so difficult is that both sides are operating under fear. The Avengers fear that the Phoenix Force will wipe out the Earth regardless if it takes Hope. The X-Men, Cyclops in particular, is playing a bit of a race card believing that the humans have pushed them to the brink of extinction when it was really just the Scarlet Witch. No one is condoning what she’s done, but Cyclops is acting as if all of humanity is thanking her for what she did. That’s not the case.
Victor: You keep saying that this Utopia world will not allow us to make mistakes and learn from them. That’s not true. You’re still missing the point, I think. The mistake that Utopia is trying to prevent us from making is blowing up the world through nuclear war. That’s one mistake I NEVER want to make and learn from. Isn’t the whole point of comics and super heroes to wipe out potential threats? Don’t they fight crime and stop super villains from taking over the world? The Phoenix Five are just making super heroes obsolete. You would think that forward thinkers like Tony Stark would accept that.
The X-Men are justifiably afraid. Their entire race is down to nothing and this is a way to let them live. Do we try to kill endangered species or save them? No. We protect them.
Bottom line, you are correct in the source of the problem, which is the Scarlet Witch. But the Phoenix Force is the solution. (I think so at least!) Only time will tell. In the meantime, the Avengers are going to learn what it means to stand in the way of evolution. I think the next several issues are going to be really bad ones for the Avengers. Can’t say that I’m sorry. Should have left the X-Men alone. Time to pay the price.
Geoff: I’m actually a little more worried for the Phoenix Five than the Avengers. The Avengers are going to take their bumps and bruises, but the Phoenix isn’t going to stay with those five forever. What happens when it leaves? The world isn’t going to stay like this and the characters aren’t going to stay that way forever.
Victor: Don’t worry about the X-Men. At the end of the day, those 200 are actually more powerful than all of the Avengers put together. Between Magneto, Professor X, Emma Frost, Legion, Magik and the Juggernaut, not to mention Hope, any one of those can give the entire Avengers team one hell of a bad day. Besides, we all know that everyone will be friends again once this is over. This is a comic book after all.
Geoff: Let’s get a little more technical with the comic itself. This particular issue is pretty high concept. I’m so glad this was left to Jonathan Hickman. He can do these weirdo stories like this and really present the more intellectual side. It doesn’t matter which way either of us fall in this debate because he presents both ideas fairly evenly.
Scarlet Witch comes to the rescue when things go south for the Avengers.
Victor: As for the writing, I think Hickman did a wonderful job. No one looks like the bad guy here. Everyone is fighting for their beliefs. But more important than the story, let’s talk art. Bye bye Romita. Hello Copiel. Do you hear that? That’s the sound of 100,000 comic fans breathing a sigh of relief. I loved the art this issue. The Phoenix Five looked incredible. The splashes were really pretty. And everything was unique. Now that’s a major improvement from the last 5 books.
Geoff: Abso-freakin-lutely. I’ve been waiting rather impatiently for Mr. Coipel to finally take his bow. Overall, this might just be my very favorite of all the issues in the event to date. The script is fairly tight for a mainstream event. The art is spectacular. This was a pretty great book even if my team is down. I think I’m going to drop a big 100 on this issue. How did you feel about it, Victor?
Victor: I will give this one a 95. It had a little bit of everything. But nothing super spectacular to make it stand out.
However, we did gloss over two very important things that did happen in the book. It seems that the Phoenix Force has a problem dealing with Wanda and cannot beat the magic of the Iron Fist. That should be something we explore in future issues.
Geoff: Yeah. Well, there is a connection between the Iron Fist and Phoenix powers as seen in New Avengers. It’s an interesting and well done retcon to connect them. I’m not terribly surprised that Wanda’s chaos abilities affect the Phoenix either. These two Avengers will definitely play a huge role. Not to mention Hope’s not out of anything yet.
Victor: True. And if you read AvX Infinite, we did finally get a Jean Grey tease so I’m pretty sure she’s still in the shuffle too. I really want her back.
Geoff: I doubt you’re the only one looking for that to happen. Maybe she’ll be able to talk sense into everyone…
A COMIC BOOK BLOG RATING
| Pros | Cons |
|---|---|
| Extremely well written. Fantastic art. Great forward movement for the plot. | A little light on action as Hickman focuses on the world after the Phoenix Five arrive. |
| Rating |
9 Comments
When this event began, I expected to side with the X-Men throughout, and to agree with Victor about everything. Right now, though, whereas I don’t agree with everything the Avengers have been doing, I’m much more inclined to root for them and I agreed with absolutely all of Geoff’s comments. The Phoenix Five are not changing the world for better, they’re patronizing all living beings. “With great power comes great responsibility” – well, I don’t think they know what responsibility means at this point. They are losing perspective, letting power consume them, as this last Infinite issue has showed. I mean, it’s is a silly childish dream to think they can solve the world’s problems like that, and even mess up with people’s minds to get it (yes, X-Men Legacy), that outrageous! Not to mention what a bunch of hypocrites they are, when six years ago they were condemning Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch for something very similar to what they’re now doing, though (surprise!) much more respectful of free will.
There is a balance they’re upsetting when trying to fix it, and all their behavior reveals is Cyclops’ complete ignorance of what humanity means. But I now understand why, of all the X-Men, those five are the ones carrying the Phoenix, why not Magneto or Storm, for example. They’re the ones that will most easily drown in their megalomania/madness and have us hope this joke ends soon.
So, yes, the event is getting good, now that it’s raising such questions. And, yay! The Scarlet Witch is now on the game, things get interesting…
Despite my new found love of the Phoenix Five’s design; I have to second with Geoff. Having proper just causes aside, the idea of frighteningly and nearly omnipotent beings forcing us to play nice and achieving peace through a exercise of extreme force and futility is not really true peace at all; it’s just high class terrorism.
It’s also a part of human nature itself to rebel, and seeing how Cyclops being nearly godlike is not above erasing Avengers over a seemingly pointless jester (abducting Hope would still seem rather insignificant to absolute power of the PF). If that doesn’t prove a point, then hate to see how this group would react to what a bunch of ballsy mutant haters might have to say.
Also considering that the power itself wouldn’t alienate them from their own kind, I’d really hate to see how badly this would backlash upon the mutant race once the five looses their Phoenix Force, if anything knowing Bendis it will be just like the aftermath of ughhh Ultimatum… Giving the human populace a definite reason to hate and fear them, thus estranging their relationship even further.
Again, I think everyone is missing the point. The Phoenix Five just want to stop WAR. Go live your lives. Go eat, drink, and thrive with the newly added FREE resources being provided. PS – don’t attack and kill mutants. The end. No hidden agenda. No martial law on walking the street or thinking about crimes. We don’t have to play nice with each other. Just with mutants (all 200 of them) and the world we live in. I say it again. I would much rather live in peace than in fear of being blown up by some religious psychopath with a nuclear bomb who feels we are all infidels who deserve death. I was in NY, watching, when the Twin Towers fell. That is not something anyone should have to experience, ever.
People who are afraid of a world with no war do not have the ability to live in peace. That’s the lesson I’m getting from this “event” so far. And I personally think its sad that so many people are agreeing with the Avengers on this one. I know its a comic and not reality but I would have thought that more people would support peace than war. Just the world we live in I guess.
Geoff, do you want to chime in on this? As a real person, not just an Avengers fan. I’m really curious if I’m just being blinded by my love for the X-Men.
Everybody wants peace, of course, but that peace must come from ourselves, not be imposed by some external force. What if they suddenly decide we’re not worthy of their time anymore? What if they simply abandon us for our luck? Or get to the conclusion that we should be kept under tighter reigns? The situation would be much worse than before, and, in the case of mutants, they would be even more hated and feared than previously. I don’t think the Phoenix Five are doing mutant-kind any good with their flying Citadel and their infinite resources (I won’t even touch the problem of the possible consequences of playing with nature, altering the environment here).
You mentioned 911. Yes, it was a tragic incident, and absurd display of the worse things humans are capable of producing. But would altering the minds of those that might want to do something like that stop that from happening? Does anyone even have that right? Would that solve any problem, in the long term? Because such things are, mostly, a manifestation of deeper social problems that would not be erased no matter how hard those deities tried. And even if they were, what? Would they have to wipe the minds of every child that was born in that environment?
I lived for years in this horrible place that was close to drug-dealers’ habitats. What I saw as I was growing up was the police and such exercising their authority to an absurd extent and not differentiate between guilty and innocent. They would arrive shooting and ask questions later. To a certain extent, that’s exactly what the Phoenix Five are doing, but with much less limits to their powers, therefore making them much more dangerous. Those policemen, too, believed they were doing what was right, even if in reality what they were doing was turning a bad situation into something worse. Which is not that different from what soldiers do in other countries when their government sends them there to get rid of the enemy, whoever that is.
Other than that, Miss Marvel’s discourse to Rogue in X-Men Legacy pretty much expresses my other concerns on the Phoenix5 subject.
Victor I don’t think anyone has a
problem benefiting from a world with no conflict; but when people get along in fear of what five powerfull beings who are potentially capable of destroying planets could do, especially with a power that we’re uncertain that the 5 could maintain control wouldnt place much faith in their cause.
Besides comparing between this and 911 are two completely unrelated incidents, despite what good that could be done for betterment of mankind humans are rebellious by nature. In reality despite the freedoms that are given to us, we humans often tend to fight for the freedoms that are denied from us. While the Phoenix Five is offering us a Utopia, we as non mutants will come to their terms ultimately out of fear that what the five could do to us, and it wil take either one ballsy or stupid human for Cyclops and the others to simply take that Utopia away from us, kinda like the story of Eve and the apple.
I’m in favor of the X-men too, but I think this is definitely progressing into something far beyond human and mutant relations. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some mutants, or other members of the X-men who’ve
begun to either distance themselves from the five or started second guessing their methods.
I really wish Geoff would chime in on this. His opinion matters here, I think. But allow me to respond.
The problem that I’m having with both Ellie and Deka’s arguments is that they’re one sided. Just like mine is one sided. Except I’m an optimist. Both of you keep mentioning the negatives and assuming the worst. Well what if, instead of all the bad things happening, only good things happen? What if everyone opens their eyes, looks around at the abundance of food, shelter, free energy, and complete lack of war and decides that this is a world that they want to live in? What if the world decides that they should actually live in peace with their neighbors? Wouldn’t that be a great thing? Why would I ever be in fear of peace as long as I maintain it?
And Deka, people are covetous by nature, not rebellious. But with all the free stuff, there should be not much left to covet. And what freedom is Cyclops denying us? The freedom of wanting to kill mutants and each other? Last I checked, that was a freedom we never had. Sure there would be some people who will always rage against the machine, but those people are sources of chaos and need to be removed from the big picture. If we could wipe out all terrorists from existence, the world would be a safer, happier, less fearful place. You have to agree with me on that, right?
Bottom line, and this is a FACT that everyone seems to keep ignoring, if the Phoenix wanted to destroy Earth, it would have done so. NOTHING short of the Living Tribunal has the power to stop it. Not the Avengers, not the X-Men, not the FF, not Galactus, not the Celestials. No one. The Phoenix is a source of cosmic balance and change, whether for good or bad. Right now, it’s doing good. Can it start doing bad? Hell yes, but it can’t be stopped anyway so just accept the positive. Once the Phoenix has achieved it’s goal, it will leave.
That is why the X-Men are currently in the right. Eventually, all that power will corrupt them as unlimited power tends to do. But, the stuff they are asking for now and doing is 100% positive and logically reasonable. Or at least that’s what I think.
Geoff, any opinions????
After reading this week’s X-Men Legacy, I have to say that Ms. Marvel says it better than anyone else has so far. We know the Phoenix isn’t exactly known for keeping people’s original personalities in check before ultimately consuming it. Knowing that history, isn’t it safe to say that the same thing is going to happen to these five?
Yes, right now, it seems that the Phoenix Five’s personalities are still showing their better natures, but how long will that last? How long before the Phoenix, even splintered as it is, takes control? How long before they see that not every single person on Earth loves what it’s done? How long after that does it decide to raze the Earth deeming it unworthy of its gifts? Think, again, how Cyclops treated Hope? He’s denying her the Phoenix based on the idea she rejected it and, therefore, she is not worthy. At what point do others, besides the Avengers, start tipping the perceptions of the Phoenix Five to the point that they decide Earth is a lost cause?
Ultimately, this whole argument comes down to the ideas of peace and freedom, but the problem is, neither is being truly realized. Peace is not like freedom. Unlike freedom, peace cannot truly be given to people. Freedoms are granted or fought for until its given. Peace is earned through sacrifice, pain, and suffering only to come out of it better for having survived and coming to an understanding that everyone is basically the same. Giving, and, technically FORCING, peace isn’t going to solve a single thing because that is actually stripping the freedom of people, mutant and non-mutant alike, to work for and find that peace. It’s a mirage and Ms. Marvel’s fate at the end of X-Men Legacy shows that the cracks in this supposed benevolent force’s facade of Utopia.
Don’t get me wrong, peace and happiness and never having to desperately want/need something would be a beautiful thing, but we need to accomplish that through making mistakes, even horrific ones, if we are to truly deserve or enjoy that peace and happiness. Having that ability to fight and struggle for those things is stripping us of what we are. In the end, our rebellious natures will come back in a way that will be 10 times worse than it was before. That’s human nature.
This story is also, at least for me, drawing a parallel with my issues with organized religion. I can say that beneath all my skepticism and questioning, I do have a streak of spirituality. If there is a cosmic scheme for us all or some sort of creator, be it a person or thing or elemental formula, that created us all, we’ve still grown to a point to where if we pray to a supreme being to save us or help us make choices for our lives, what’s the point in having choice or free will? The Phoenix is kind of doing this for me. If they are willing to answer all my prayers for everything, then when, or why, would I ever use my intelligence to do anything. What keeps me from lounging around in my underwear and stuffing my face full of Ho-Ho’s if some all powerful being is taking care of me? What would be my contribution to the world? What would be the point in me having a contribution? What’s my self worth? Wouldn’t that also make me that much more of a selfish turd than I would normally be if I had a contribution or had to work for the things I have?
The point is, having everything we could ever hope for given to us, our self worth as a species would suffer to the point of devolving into children. Future generations would not have war or famine, but why would we ever need to further ourselves through ingenuity or technology? In the grand scheme of things, the human race, mutant or non-mutant, would ultimately turn into slaves of the Phoenix.
Also, I’m fairly certain the Phoenix will still try to blow up Earth.
My lord you are one pessimistic human being.
Once again, the Phoenix is not solving ALL of your problems. It is giving you food, and not an infinite amount. Clean water, once again, not infinite. And free energy. To earn it, you have to 1)stop attacking and killing mutants and 2) stop attacking and killing each other. Am I missing something? Why would you stop living your life? The point of life is family. Without my family, I have no reason to live. We’re here for a millisecond of time in the grand scheme of things. 99.99% of us will not leave any impression that we were ever here. Family is all we have to remember us. Why further yourselves? To make your life and your familie’s life better. Its not like you will have everything you want because of the Phoenix. You want an X-Box? Work for it. You want to see a movie? Pay for it. You want to eat top quality food? Earn it. Everything still costs money. No one is taking care of you. They are only helping the world be a better place. Period!!!!! Stop making it seem like they’ll wipe your butt after you take a poop. You still have to be self sufficient.
What am I missing here or why is everyone refusing to see the logic? (You see, I’m an atheist so I run on pure logic.)
Comic wise, you all are 100% right. Eventually, the Phoenix will take over, corrupt it’s hosts and be rejected and fly away, cause havoc, etc. etc. etc. Remove the Phoenix from the equation. It could blow up the earth at any time with no opposition so the point is moot. As a human race, you’re saying that the world being presented to us by the Phoenix is worse than the world we live in today? Seriously? War, death, terrorism, nuclear weapons vs. peace, food, and clean free energy? It just makes absolutely no sense to me why anyone would not choose the latter.
Well, yes, Victor, I don’t think anyone can deny the world you’re describing is exactly what everyone’s always dreamed, practically John Lennon’s “Imagine” come true. My problem, at least, and I think the others’ as well, is that I don’t think humans would ever be satisfied with it, especially if they weren’t the ones to achieve it, and I really doubt a cosmic entity would always be there to help us maintain this perfect world, and it’s likely it would someday decide humans aren’t deserving of it, and then what? You can call me pessimist, but I really see human nature in a “Lord of Flies” way – we like to think we’re Ralph, but honestly we’re all Jack, just waiting for an opportunity to let our savage side rule us.
Also, it is a utopia, even the Phoenix5 acknowledge it. And what’s the bottom line of an utopia, the first meaning of the world? A non-existent place. They may have build it, but it’s destined to crumble in its own origins.
Anyway, I’d like to say I’m loving this debate, maybe especially because we’ll never convince you =P It’s not every year that a comic book event manages to raise such questions and make fans take sides and argument so heatedly to defend their side. Kudos for Marvel for this.