Avengers Vs. X-Men is here. And what better way to handle this than to have our resident Avengers fan (Geoff Arbuckle) and our resident X-Men fan (Victor Kutsenok) come together in a place of neutrality to talk about their favorite teams coming to blows over a cosmic power coming to Earth. Now, the end, also known as Avengers Vs X-Men #12!
Avengers Vs X-Men #12
Geoff: And we’ve come to the end of the massive, twelve part Avengers Vs. X-Men event. Victor, I gotta say I was quite impressed by the event as a whole, and hey… We finally have an event that feels like there’s a conclusion to it! Yes, there are things to come and ideas that will be directly connected to this conclusion, but there’s actually a beginning, middle, and end to a Marvel event!
How did you feel about this final issue?
Victor: I was both happy and disappointed. I was happy that we finally got an event with a solid start, some action running throughout the series, and a definitive ending. Also, the book had an ending that caused a change that cannot be overlooked and will have lasting repercussions throughout the Marvel Universe.
I was disappointed because there was no ultimate sacrifice to justify the destruction that this event caused. Also, as always, the end mirrored the beginning. At the end of the day, Cyclops was 100% right. And if the Avengers did not get involved at all, the results would have probably been the same. (Technically not, since Wanda and Hope would not have teamed up and Hope would not have any training from K’un L’un, but you get my point)
The fallout of it all was kind of dumb too, but not so dumb that it makes the entire event forgetful. What did you think about the book Geoff?
Geoff: I thought there was some nice themes running through the entire series, but the conclusion really put to bed the last several years at Marvel that goes back to House of M.
The mutants have returned and, in a lot of ways, this feels as though this is a fresh start to the X-Men. The number of big X books coming out going forward seems small in comparison to the Avengers books, but I feel like they are getting the benefit from that fresh start to slowly roll out new ideas and stories.
That being said, I would argue that a major sacrifice was made in the form of Cyclops. The man has literally pushed himself over the edge and he is much more like Magneto than he wanted to admit previously in the series. He didn’t care about the way this concluded. He only seemed to wanted to be right. The conclusion to the story with him and Captain America discussing what’s happened is eerie. I may never have been that big of a Cyclops fan, but that scene made me feel sorry for him – not for what he did, but that he can’t really see that the end didn’t justify the means.
Victor: But he was right. In the end, everything he predicted would happen, happened. Unfortunately, Professor X had to fall for it. I feel that Cyclops should have been killed. By Wolverine. Right as he was having his vision. That would have been poetic and final and memorable. All we get now is a man in chains. Saw it happen at the end of Civil War. Felt hollow then and feels hollow now. We all know Cyclops will be free again and a hero again.
And while I agree that the end did not justify the means, those means were caused by Cap sticking his fist into a situation where words could have been used for a much better effect. Of course that would mean no action, just long debates, which makes for a boring event, but no one seems to think that Cap and the Avengers were wrong in the first place. I still think they were.
So Cyclops is the new Magneto. Great. He’s still not powerful enough to be a threat of that magnitude. When you say Magneto is attacking, you immediately need every hero possible to stop him. Cyclops is attacking doesn’t have the same effect. Just send Wolverine to chop his head off. Threat over.
Geoff: To be honest, really this whole thing was started by Wanda and her wiping out of mutants. That signaled the Phoenix and ultimately, the Avengers and X-Men were both caught up in it. It really snowballed out of everyone’s control too quickly. Cap thought only to protect the planet. Cyclops thought only of restoring the mutant race. Both were unwilling to discuss anything any other way.
I think Cyclops can be quite dangerous. Magneto often went too far in his grand schemes and often would come off as more of a terrorist than a civil rights leader that he could have been. Cyclopes is going to be a martyr to some. As soon as these new mutants are facing angry and frightened mobs of people who feel threatened, he’s going to be the one who was right all along. He’ll be able to operate from the shadows and when he knows what these new mutants are dealing with, he’s not going to be the hero again to anyone but them and himself. I think he could be a very dangerous villain down the line.
Overall, I positively loved the scale of this issue. The whole damn world is on fire! Cyclops has completely lost himself to the Phoenix. Everyone is scrambling and resting their hopes and two girls that don’t exactly get along well (we’ll be talking more about that in our AvX Vs. #6 review). At least not well enough to give anyone hope. It felt like an appropriate conclusion to the large scale event as a whole.
Victor: Of course an Avengers fan would say that. Cyclops and Cap were not unwilling to discuss, they just never had that option presented. Cap arrived at Utopia with an army, not a delegation. Cyclops defended himself and all hell broke loose. I do agree that Wanda caused this mess and its nice that she finally got to redeem herself. (Like I predicted waaaaaaay at the start of this event) Mutants are back, biggest problem solved.
The difference between Cyclops and Magneto is that Magneto can blow up planets and hold off an army of heroes by himself. Cyclops can have his ass kicked by anyone who can sneak up behind him. He can be a powerful mouthpiece like the Red Skull, but as a force of power, he doesn’t scare anyone. Can he be a real villain? Sure. He was possessed by Apocalypse at one time so anything is possible.
The scale was massive. It really gave the entire event the validity of deserving to be an event, and not just some random story with lots of guest appearances. I loved the limited action and the Jean tease. (I guess that’s all I’ll get this time around) Was the ending a bit flaky? Yes. But what else can you do when dealing with a cosmic force.
I was a bit confused as to why the Phoenix Four are being hunted, along with what appears to be Magneto. It’s like blaming a possessed man for crimes he committed while being possessed. Also, why make an enemy of Namor, king of the freaking oceans? Magic, lord of Limbo, and Emma Frost, now probably the most powerful telepath on the planet. As for Magneto, do you REALLY want to piss him off?
Geoff: As far as the other four Phoenixes, I can see why they may be hunted down. These people are technically war criminals. Yes, they were possessed, but to the public eye, they are at fault and they need to pay. As far as Mags, I think we’ll have to wait and see why he’s on the run. I guess he was their gopher so maybe that’s why? Before hooking up with Scott’s team was he wanted?
Let’s talk art. Adam Kubert really killed it here. I absolutely loved his big moments and I really liked how he broke down the scenes – particularly the action scenes.
Victor: Magneto is always wanted. It’s just that no one is dumb enough to go after him. Also he had Scott and Professor X vouching for him so there was that. And the public can be made to believe anything. Norman Osborn was running the freaking country for a year for god’s sake and the people loved him. People are easily manipulated.
Artwise, this issue was masterful. Kubert is the man and should have been the artist from day 1. Copiel was all right and JRJR is a in-distinctive character drawing mess. Kubert knows how to present individuality, layer powers and images, and show facial expressions. A complete package.
Geoff: Yeah. That two page spread bringing us back to present from the end of the previous issue is stunning. Similarly, I really liked the scene of Hope and Wanda jumping into the fray. Overall, I agree with you, I really wish the entire series would have been Kubert.
Victor: Oh well. Maybe Marvel will get the hint and NEVER use JRJR again. (One could only dream)
So let’s give this a vote, yes?
For this issue, I will give it a 90. I loved most of it but the resolution was a bit flaky and really didn’t have a tragic finality that I was expecting. It did have an extremely productive ending, just not overly memorable.
As for the overall event, I will give that a 99. It did it’s job. It provided action on a grand scale. It had massive repercussions on the entire Marvel Universe. It had plenty of OMG fan moments. I took of a point for JRJR, because he was the only fleck of dust in an otherwise perfectly clean picture. What do you think Geoff?
Geoff: I will agree with you on the 90 for the issue. I think the event did what it set out to do as a whole, and the conclusion to the event put a nice bow on a lot of things. We have an ending that’s not what I like to call a “dot-dot-dot” ending where someone says something and it just blows the door open for more to have happen or leaves too many threads left undone. I do think this ending also nicely set up what’s to be seen starting next week with Marvel NOW!
What say you about moving onto AvX Vs. #6?
Victor: Let’s do it.
See Victor & Geoff discuss Avengers Vs X-Men Vs. #6 HERE (or click the banner below).
A COMIC BOOK BLOG RATING
|Well paced, exciting, sets up the beginning of Marvel NOW nicely. Art is phenomenal.||Victor feels the ending is a slight cop out for Cyclops to simply remain in a cell.|